2012 is released!

[site admin]

2012 is officially released. Thanks to all of you for your patience.

Carlson Software

[tstrickland]

Thanks, guys, I've been looking forward to it, especially the Icad 7.
However, the server won't give me a serial #, although I'm on maint.
Is everybody else able to get a serial # OK, or is it just me?
thanks.

[ColC]

2012 has significant improvements, but I have several issues already. My advise is, tread carefully. Don't jump in expecting instant results.

The one obvious difference is the right click menu. 2011 had instant access to a lot of basic editing functions. 2012 has some of those functions another level away. My attempts to customise backfired.

I feel it operates a lot quicker, and has some of the long awaited functions such as irregular viewports using mview.

I encourage users to provide useful feed back to the support team so that any issues can be resolved.

[Dent Cermak]

ColC, evidently I am missing something here. I am running Carlson Survey 2010 and I can create irregular viewports using "mview". I use the "polygonal" option and can go as irregular as my warped mind will take me. Is there a differance?

[ColC]

You are running Embedded, that option has not been available in Intellicad until now.

I have converted my embedded versions for the Intellicad version. I am not a great supporter of Autocad.

[tstrickland]

ColC,
I've been using the 2009 embedded, although I purchased the Civil Suite starting with 2010. I've been waiting mostly on the Icad 7 to completely switch over, but it's had too many bugs in the beta.

I'm looking forward to this release, and hopefully the issues will be resolved soon. It will take some time to wade through all the settings and configure it like I'm used to, but that should be a one time effort.

[Dent Cermak]

It will be interesting to see what the story is with Intellicad on this release. So far, i have not been impressed. Especially when the Carlson Field 2010 pack with Intellicad only saves as 2007 or earlier.
I don't like the games AutoDesk has played lately either, but the Embedded version is so many levels above the intellicad version that they will not get my money yet.

[tstrickland]

BTW, you guys on annual maintenance better keep your receipts! They were showing that I hadn't renewed when indeed I had. I finally got my serial number after forwarding the invoice and receipt from Jan of this year. I'm glad I still had it!

[gskelhorn]

Bummer... looks like Carlson with Intellicad 7.1 still does not have the intelligence for object linking lines with points and labels with line. Seems to me like points --> lines --> labels should be basic functionality.

There is no Civil Suite embedded option.

I was really hoping to see some improvement here. So disappointed. It is starting to look like Carlson on the Intellicad platform is not intended to have identical funtionality as the Autocad brother. I have not been able to get a clear understanding of where Carlson is going with Intellicad. Has anyone else?

Sure would be nice to see Carlson running on Bricscad. I expect if that were done there would be a rapid convergence between the Carlson functionality on Autocad and Bricscad. Personally I don't think Intellicad will ever match Bricscad.

Well, here's to waiting to see what next year will bring

[Dent Cermak]

I've never seen Briscad, so I cannot comment on that one. Intellicad though, appears to be still growing and trying to catch up. It looks like they are now on the AutoCad 2007 level, but you know all of the changes that happened between 2007 and 2012. Almost totally different animals. That's a bunch of catching up to do. Evidently it will take more time.
I think Carlson is indeed trying to find another stable, full function base for its products because of AutoDesk's ways of doing things. They are not real loyal to third party programs that get too popular. They either pull stupid stuff like they did with Carlson or they buy up the competition.
On the Survey end it is rather obvious that AutoDesk is not real concerned with those users. They are going after the big bucks in the Engineering and Architecture areas. Seems like they could see the sense in dropping the survey package- that they do not really wish to support - and let a third party have that market with software with AutoCad embedded. It's a "win-win" situation. AutoDesk gets a fee for the kernal and the surveyors get a useable package.
AutoDesk may well come up short if Intellicad or Briscad come of age.

[tstrickland]

Well, I'm planning on backing my ears and switching over completely to the Intellicad platform. I believe that I can work around the current problems with anticipation that they will be resolved in the future. Hey, it's bound to get better.

I wouldn't mind Briscad, either, but it's probably a lot of trouble for the programmers to work through the kinks in each engine, and the Intellicad don't cost any extra. I've just been waiting on a stable v7, and hopefully we have that now. I haven't upgraded my embedded Survey since 2009, and don't plan on it. I'm forging ahead with the 2012 Civil Suite, and hope to stay with this from now on. I don't like feeding the Autodesk bear, either, although it is a good stable product.

[ColC]

I have been using 2011 v6.6 Intellicad with minimal problems now for about 6 months. Compared to the earlier release of Intellicad it has been fairly stable. I think Carlson took on a big challenge when they moved to Intellicad. I am pretty sure they would have gone through similar hassles if they had used Briscad. I first fiddled with programming in the early 1970's and have some understanding of the problems the Carlsons programmers would be having. And if the responses I get to my feedback are any indication, the Carlson staff are working hard at the resolving the issues.

The management of the layers was the biggest sacrifice I made in giving up my embedded version. 2012 has only closed the gap a little bit in this area, which is a bit disappointing. The layer management contributes significantly in the speed a of processing a job. The Clayer option is another which is not in 2012. Again a very useful option. And the ability to select and filter groups of items is still very clumsy in Intellicad. And the right click menu mentioned in my earlier post is another deficiency.

I will continue with 2011 for the moment and test out the 2012 in my quieter moments. I think it is important to provide constructive feedback so as these issues can be resolved.

I hope that Carlson look to consolidate the program in the areas I have mention rather than be side tracked with too many new options. These options are always impressive but I would like to see the effort in improving the "user friendly" options.

[gskelhorn]

Yes, the programming and maintenance of code is quite an issue. I do not know anything about Carlson's code base.

I do know the Intellicad lisp performance is below Bricscad's lisp performance and Bricscad lisp engine is much more code compatible to Autocad than Intellicad is. Bricscad lisp includes most of the visual lisp function Autocad has. Also, every incompatibility I have bumped into between Autocad and Bricscad lisp has been resolved with urgency.

If Carlson is developing in C++ using ARX on Autocad and Intellicad is based on the ODA libraries and SDK there are two very different code sets to maintain. Bricscad has been in the process of wrapping the ODA libraries to create their BRX SDK which is designed to make it much easier to port their Autocad ARX code to Bricscad BRX with minimal changes in code and functionality. The BRX library has been improving by leaps and bounds with each annual update.

As for the .Net, Bricscad has does have minimal support currently and will also be expanded rapidly. The API is again intended to remain code compatible with Autocad .Net.

Bricsys is very responsive to fixing reported bugs. Often within a week or two there is a public release to fix the issue.

I have nothing against Intellicad products. We have had them here in some form or another for 10 years and I agree the Intellicad platform has improved significantly in that time. It is just moving soooo slow in a manner that seems to me will require Carlson to develop and maintain two code bases so the two will not have the same functionality.

Well, hopefully the Intellicad consortium has developed this v7 code base so it is clean and flexible so it can progress rapidly in a stable manner like they are saying in the new releases. I have been trying to remain patient but it is hard! Sorry

[tstrickland]

Note that the Icad 7.1 is still BETA. There are still some issues with it. I'm going to re-install with the 6.x engine for now.

I know the folks at Carlson are working hard to make this work, and they will if it can be done.

Dent, I took out part of the original post. I felt that I grumbled maybe a little too loud.

[Dent Cermak]

Wait a month or so and go back to the Embeded version?