PROPOSED SOLUTION FOR 3D POLYLINE ISSUE *** PLEASE READ ***

[James Shaw]

Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have come up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many sources as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a 3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[Nava Ran]

I suggest you to explode the polylines before plotting, you will see the
linetype displayed.
Plot without saving or save the drawing with a different name.

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com> wrote
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have come
up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many sources
as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[Terry Scanlon]

"Nava Ran" <navaran@zahav.net.il> wrote in message
news:asmnu8$cql$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

I suggest you to explode the polylines before plotting, you will see the
linetype displayed.

Yikes! Not really. Especially if you have an arc that has been segmented.
Flattening the line for copying is a better solution, but still does not
create the true arcs needed for other purposes.

I like Mr. Shaws idea.

Terry Scanlon

[Terry Scanlon]

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com> wrote in message
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:
snip
Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

Sounds great.

In some routines this already exists. Such as when creating a 3d poly from
a 2d
and one is asked whether to erase or keep the original poly.

Otherwise, what you describe is often something that I must do manually, and
it
does take time depending on the drawing. I copy 3d polys to a new layer and
then flatten it.

Terry Scanlon

[Nava Ran]

Use FTF2D.FLD to create 2D polylines for plotting and FTF3D.FLD for working
in different layers.
Before plotting freeze the 3D polylines layers and your drafting product
will be presentable.

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com>
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have come
up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many sources
as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[James Shaw]

An interesting and workable idea, Nava. I still think of that as a Band-Aid
and not a long-term answer. The problem I see with this idea is that we
frequently work on large topo projects. Just to use an example, if our topo
consists of 10,000 points and only 20% of that data creates breaklines than
processing twice will cause a large abundance of unneeded data. We could
always make all the unnecessary redundant codes go to a 'dump' level that
will subsequently be erased, but that is yet another step. We could also
make two files, a topo 2D and a topo 3D, but then we would have to worry
about making sure both files are always up-to-date and in harmony. I'm not
dismissing your idea, in fact we may use that for now. Overall, I still
believe that Carlson could make some simple changes to their processing that
would be a more reasonable and less storage-consuming solution.

James


"Nava Ran" <navaran@zahav.net.il> wrote in message
news:aso0ec$leu$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Use FTF2D.FLD to create 2D polylines for plotting and FTF3D.FLD for
working
in different layers.
Before plotting freeze the 3D polylines layers and your drafting product
will be presentable.

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It
affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have come
up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many sources
as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that
certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we
envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D
polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[Nava Ran]

James,
Create a topo2d.fld file only for needed 2d polylines (for
drafting purpose) and use <Draw Lines Only...> in
Field to Finish dialog when you want to plot.
Hope this helps.
Nava
"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com> ëúá áäåãòä
news:aso6m4$no3$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

An interesting and workable idea, Nava. I still think of that as a
Band-Aid
and not a long-term answer. The problem I see with this idea is that we
frequently work on large topo projects. Just to use an example, if our
topo
consists of 10,000 points and only 20% of that data creates breaklines
than
processing twice will cause a large abundance of unneeded data. We could
always make all the unnecessary redundant codes go to a 'dump' level that
will subsequently be erased, but that is yet another step. We could also
make two files, a topo 2D and a topo 3D, but then we would have to worry
about making sure both files are always up-to-date and in harmony. I'm
not
dismissing your idea, in fact we may use that for now. Overall, I still
believe that Carlson could make some simple changes to their processing
that
would be a more reasonable and less storage-consuming solution.

James


"Nava Ran" <navaran@zahav.net.il> wrote in message
news:aso0ec$leu$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Use FTF2D.FLD to create 2D polylines for plotting and FTF3D.FLD for
working
in different layers.
Before plotting freeze the 3D polylines layers and your drafting product
will be presentable.

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We
have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest
AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It
affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have
come
up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many
sources
as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for
making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that
certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and
a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we
envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D
polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off
and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but
it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that
would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so
that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[David]

James, define your .ctb so that the color defines the line thickness ant the
plot looks like you want it to but the wide lines are not in the drawing and
possibly covering point data. This option works well for me and the color 50
and 2 (yellows that I can hardly tell the difference in) can be predefined
for different lineweights, after all you have several options this way.

Hope this helped
David

"James Shaw" <jshaw@nospam-gwstephens.com> wrote in message
news:asliuh$59r$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Hello Carlson Software and Carlson Users:

My company just started using AutoCAD/SurvCADD back in August. We have
considerable experience using MicroStation. One of the hardest AutoCAD
deficiencies for us to swallow has been the 3D polyline issue. It affects
our drafting product in so many ways. Pondering the problem I have come
up
with a possible solution and I am looking for input from as many sources
as
possible.

FACTS:

* 3D polylines will not display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* 3D polylines are important to topo because they act as breaklines.
* 3D polylines are important in the design process.
* 2D polylines will display lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle.
* Lineweight, linestyle, and plotstyle are important features for making
effective plots.

SOLUTION:

Carlson should add an option to the Field to Finish coding so that certain
codes will produce two lines, one as a 2D polyline and one as a 3D
polyline,
on separate layers. In this manner you would have the 2D polyline,
correctly showing the right linestlye, etc. for plotting purposes, and a
3D
polyline for creating the surface model. For our own purposes we envision
using individual layers for the individual types of 2D polylines (i.e.
curbing, swale, etc.) and one all-inclusive layer for all the 3D polylines
(i.e. 3d_break). That 3D polyline layer would typically be left off and
set
as non-plotting.

This is a little bit of a change from Carlson's current approach, but it
seems it would be much easier for Carlson to add some coding that would
allow for a duplicate line to be placed, since the software is already
going
through the process of creating 2D and 3D polylines anyhow, than it
currently is to hunt down and copy and convert every 3D polyline so that
our
drafting product will be presentable.

Opinions please.

James Shaw
G.W. Stephens, Jr. and Assoc., Inc.

[JackG]

James,

I have run into the same problem with 3d polys. I am currently working on a
large As-Built w/Topo for a manufacturing plant. I am not having any trouble
plotting lineWEIGHTS because I define my lineweights in a color table, a
".ctb" file that goes in the ACAD2000\Plot Styles folder. However, AutoCAD
does not seem to be able to show linetypes (dashdot, dash, etc.) with a 3D
Polyline. This is not a problem with topo lines since they are really 2D
polylines, each with a common elevation. I use "fence" linetypes and "OH"
linetypes for fences and overhead electric. For these, I just use a 2D line
in my FTF .fld file and I freeze these layers when contouring, because they
are not representative of the ground anyway. Sometimes I need a polyline to
be 3d for contouring and at the same time I need it to show the linetype for
plotting purposes. For instance - CL of roads or Railroad tracks. Since
polylines can be joined, I can pick these lines easily or I pick them using
the filter command (Carlson's filter is better than AutoCAD's for this
purpose). For these kinds of lines, I will use "copy", making 0,0,0 both the
base point and the destination point. I then put the original 3d polylines
on a layer I call "HIDE", which is a frozen layer and will not display or
plot. Since I have just picked them, they are in a "temporary" AutoCAD
selection set and I can just type "P" for previous when changing properties.
Then I use the Carlson 3d to 2d routine on my copied polylines, with an
elevation of 0.00. If the linetype is bylayer, you will already see the
change. This may sound like a lot of work, but I ran these routines on a 50
acre, 10 megabyte file, in about 10 minutes. Showing linetypes on 3d lines
for plotting has always been an AutoCAD problem and it is not going to go
away. At least Carlson has made workarounds easier and faster.

JackG