Your Carlson Purchase Experience

[Dave H.]

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it. It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period. Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide. Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it. He told me that's the way they "ALL" ship but on the website it
shows a nice box and advertises the shipping weight as being 1.1 pounds.
One CD in a plastic case is a fraction of that weight so I personally feel
that I was not sold what I paid for.

Was your purchase a better experience? Most importantly, did you receive a
better packaged product? If so I'll really feel like I was screwed.


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[Rich]

It did take a couple weeks each time we ordered a couple of licenses, but
that simple plastic DVD style case with the CD and a sticker is all you get
(7 sets at my office). Do be careful if you are getting additinoal packages
like Roads ... that's where the local reseller screws up usually and gives
you too many or the wrong authorization numbers for what you ordered. It's a
bit confusing I guess and not really intuitive for them. We got it worked
out, after some phone calls and new numbers.

We printed out the manual (6 times) on a laser printer and 3-ring bound it
(big binder).

I personally really dislike the direction software manufactures have taken
with the lack of manuals, but Carlson is by no means alone. I love a good
manual and miss curling up with said manual and a cordial to study away from
the computer.

Rich

"Dave H." <dhettrick@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e8rpkh$b44$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it. It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period. Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide. Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it. He told me that's the way they "ALL" ship but on the website it
shows a nice box and advertises the shipping weight as being 1.1 pounds.
One CD in a plastic case is a fraction of that weight so I personally feel
that I was not sold what I paid for.

Was your purchase a better experience? Most importantly, did you receive a
better packaged product? If so I'll really feel like I was screwed.


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[Dave H.]

Good morning Rich,

No, I didn't even get a DVD style case, just a cheap plastic one that's no
bigger than the CD itself. Myself personally, I'm just an individual who
does contract drafting work for different clients. My speculation is that
they (Carlson and its re-sellers) could care less about one person who is
only going to purchase one license and no hardware from them. If it wasn't
for their low price and the fact that it's pretty good software, in my
opinion they would not be around long with the way their reps and their
re-sellers treat customers. I'm still waiting for one to call me back
about selling me a license and it's been a week. They seem to lose your
number and not want to answer your calls after you tell them your
interested in making a Carlson purchase. Total time for me was over two
months with one dealer BS'ing me most of that time.

Dave H., JAX. FL


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[Dave H.]

Hello John,

In fairness my rep has contacted me over the shipping weight issue and
gave me a satisfactory reason for it. UPS uses 1.1 lb. as a minimum
shipping weight but I could tell though that my criticism and questioning
was not very appreciated. Using the "to keep costs low" as a primary
reason for a poorly packaged and lack of materials, in what's supposed to
be a professional product is something I still have just a minor issue
with. As I explained to the rep you can go to "Best Buys" and get a brand
new kid's game like Sponge-Bob vs. Mario for $10 and you are able get
something decently packed with at least some minimal instructions or
documentation included.

And to also be even more fair, the software does work great for myself and
my needs. I have no issue with the software itself at all.

Dave H., JAX, FL



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[R.K. McSwain]

Dave H. said the following on 7/9/2006 3:40 PM:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it.

Why? Are they trying to sell you a competitive product instead?

It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period.

That is ridiculous...

Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide.

Wow. On the one side, what you are purchasing is the software, which can
be delivered in a variety of methods - none of which require a book or
DVD case. We purchase addition AutoCAD seats all the time and don't
receive anything - we don't need it.

On the other hand, it sounds like you are a new customer, so IMO - you
should have received what is advertised. I guess they quit supplying
manuals with CS. SurvCADD 2006 still ships with two 2-inch thick
manuals. I just got rid of them too....

Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it.

LOL


Good luck. Hopefully your experience with the software will be better
than that of the purchase.

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com

[John Macolini]

Nothing but a good experience for me.

John O'Brien is my sales rep (Maine and New England).

I had the demo disk already, and just purchased over the phone with him, and
he gave me the codes to make it work right away. Within in a week, I had
the paperwork, not that it mattered much to me, though.

I've had to call for techical help a few times also, and they always called
me back quickly, and helped me out.

Sorry it hasn't been the same for you.


"Dave H." <dhettrick@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e8rpkh$b44$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it. It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period. Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide. Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it. He told me that's the way they "ALL" ship but on the website it
shows a nice box and advertises the shipping weight as being 1.1 pounds.
One CD in a plastic case is a fraction of that weight so I personally feel
that I was not sold what I paid for.

Was your purchase a better experience? Most importantly, did you receive a
better packaged product? If so I'll really feel like I was screwed.


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##-----------------------------------------------##

[Terry Strickland]

Heck, I didn't even get a cd, I don't think. I don't really need one. I
downloaded the software from the website, got my serial number and
authorization, and I was off and running. I've did the same thing every
time I upgraded. A cd is really worthless once a new version comes out.

As far as the documentation goes, well, it seems like all the software
vendors are getting away from it. What was the last version of windows
to come with a manual? Hmm, maybe 3.1? Anyway, I like a paper manual
also, but not enough to print one out yet.

I have Carlson Survey, SurvCE, and GisCE. I'm a happy customer. I doubt
if they could run me off if they tried.
terry

R.K. McSwain wrote:

Dave H. said the following on 7/9/2006 3:40 PM:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it.


Why? Are they trying to sell you a competitive product instead?


It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period.


That is ridiculous...

Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide.


Wow. On the one side, what you are purchasing is the software, which can
be delivered in a variety of methods - none of which require a book or
DVD case. We purchase addition AutoCAD seats all the time and don't
receive anything - we don't need it.

On the other hand, it sounds like you are a new customer, so IMO - you
should have received what is advertised. I guess they quit supplying
manuals with CS. SurvCADD 2006 still ships with two 2-inch thick
manuals. I just got rid of them too....



Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it.


LOL


Good luck. Hopefully your experience with the software will be better
than that of the purchase.

[Col Cadman]

Terry Strickland wrote:

Heck, I didn't even get a cd, I don't think. I don't really need one. I
downloaded the software from the website, got my serial number and
authorization, and I was off and running. I've did the same thing every
time I upgraded. A cd is really worthless once a new version comes out.

As far as the documentation goes, well, it seems like all the software
vendors are getting away from it. What was the last version of windows
to come with a manual? Hmm, maybe 3.1? Anyway, I like a paper manual
also, but not enough to print one out yet.

I have Carlson Survey, SurvCE, and GisCE. I'm a happy customer. I doubt
if they could run me off if they tried.
terry

R.K. McSwain wrote:

Dave H. said the following on 7/9/2006 3:40 PM:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the
Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it.



Why? Are they trying to sell you a competitive product instead?


It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period.



That is ridiculous...

Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide.



Wow. On the one side, what you are purchasing is the software, which
can be delivered in a variety of methods - none of which require a
book or DVD case. We purchase addition AutoCAD seats all the time and
don't receive anything - we don't need it.

On the other hand, it sounds like you are a new customer, so IMO - you
should have received what is advertised. I guess they quit supplying
manuals with CS. SurvCADD 2006 still ships with two 2-inch thick
manuals. I just got rid of them too....



Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it.



LOL


Good luck. Hopefully your experience with the software will be better
than that of the purchase.

I cannot understand the fuss. I operate in Australia and have been able

to download upgrades from the website and receive serial numbers no
problem. I purchased the upgrade over the web again no problem. As for
manuals, I have a collection of manuals dating back to the early 70's
for all sorts of softyware and most of them have only been opened on
occasions. A digital manual is fine,I can print out anything I wish to
read in depth. For me, it is more important that the manuals are
readible and provide good info and instructions. I think I would score
Carlson manual at 7/10 or better.

[Doug Sims]

Our company has been very pleased with our Carlson Experience, but we
have only purchased one product so far, and are planning on upgrading soon.

As far as a reseller goes, if they don't want to call you back, then
they don't want your business. (Which may not be a good way to run a
business)

Looking at the other comments in this thread, and judging from my
experience with Carlson, I think it is just as easy, if not easier, to
do business with them directly through their website. This newsgroup has
proved to be very helpful for minor problems and issues that people have
had with the software, plus it gives a good sense of community for those
wondering if they should switch to Carlson.

Just my opinions, of course,
--Doug Sims


Dave H. wrote:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do trying
to help you get it. It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period. Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide. Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it. He told me that's the way they "ALL" ship but on the website it
shows a nice box and advertises the shipping weight as being 1.1 pounds.
One CD in a plastic case is a fraction of that weight so I personally feel
that I was not sold what I paid for.

Was your purchase a better experience? Most importantly, did you receive a
better packaged product? If so I'll really feel like I was screwed.


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[Doug Sims]

My score for the Carlson manual. 3/10

Reasons:
-No bookmarks. I can't find what I need, and the page numbers don't
match the PDF pages.

-Copy centers won't print it out because of copyright issues (if someone
knows how to talk them into I'm all ears).

-Commands are incomplete and/or dialog boxes aren't right. (I understand
that some things change, but change the manual and provide an updated copy.)

Personally, I want an actual manual, or at least a bookmarked PDF. The
lack of bookmarks and/or hyperlinks to other sections and chapters
requires you to print it out if you want any kind of separation of the
different sections. To be able to quickly refer to a confusing function
or operation, like generating a surface and contouring, I don't want to
spend 30 minutes looking for the section on contouring.

People want a product when they buy something, something they can hold
in their hand. This may change with the next generation who is growing
up with digital distribution, and subscription services for everything,
but for now people still want to feel like they are getting what they
pay for.

--Doug Sims

Col Cadman wrote:

Terry Strickland wrote:
Heck, I didn't even get a cd, I don't think. I don't really need one.
I downloaded the software from the website, got my serial number and
authorization, and I was off and running. I've did the same thing
every time I upgraded. A cd is really worthless once a new version
comes out.

As far as the documentation goes, well, it seems like all the software
vendors are getting away from it. What was the last version of windows
to come with a manual? Hmm, maybe 3.1? Anyway, I like a paper manual
also, but not enough to print one out yet.

I have Carlson Survey, SurvCE, and GisCE. I'm a happy customer. I
doubt if they could run me off if they tried.
terry

R.K. McSwain wrote:

Dave H. said the following on 7/9/2006 3:40 PM:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the
Jacksonville, FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do
trying
to help you get it.



Why? Are they trying to sell you a competitive product instead?


It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie
was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period.



That is ridiculous...

Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd
expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide.



Wow. On the one side, what you are purchasing is the software, which
can be delivered in a variety of methods - none of which require a
book or DVD case. We purchase addition AutoCAD seats all the time and
don't receive anything - we don't need it.

On the other hand, it sounds like you are a new customer, so IMO -
you should have received what is advertised. I guess they quit
supplying manuals with CS. SurvCADD 2006 still ships with two 2-inch
thick manuals. I just got rid of them too....



Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking sticker
on it.



LOL


Good luck. Hopefully your experience with the software will be better
than that of the purchase.

I cannot understand the fuss. I operate in Australia and have been able
to download upgrades from the website and receive serial numbers no
problem. I purchased the upgrade over the web again no problem. As for
manuals, I have a collection of manuals dating back to the early 70's
for all sorts of softyware and most of them have only been opened on
occasions. A digital manual is fine,I can print out anything I wish to
read in depth. For me, it is more important that the manuals are
readible and provide good info and instructions. I think I would score
Carlson manual at 7/10 or better.

[Dave H.]

Good afternoon Doug,

The lack of any documentation, even a brief "quick-start" booklet is
definitely just being cheap in my opinion. Years ago I purchased a C&G
license on sale for $500 back in 1994 and received two very large and
informative manuals with the software and that's how I began my CAD
career. I was still working in the field back then with absolutely no CAD
experience and very minimal computer experience, just some drafting on the
board, but within two months I was producing finished drawings which
impressed the people above and the rest is history. All from manuals that
I was able to bookmark, highlight and place beside me and read while I
worked through a problem on screen. Like I mentioned before, if a $10
Mario game can come with instructions then I personally feel that so
should one that considers itself a professional product. Maybe the game
makers have more pride in their software?
$1500 may not be a lot of money to some folks but to me it's still a
substantial sum and I truly feel that a little booklet wouldn't break the
bank. If their profit margin is so small that they cannot afford something
so menial then I wonder why they would rather run up phone bills and labor
costs to provide tech support? It's probably more than they normally would
have to if there were better documentation. Seems like they're spending
dollars to save dimes to me. And most importantly and I think others have
missed my main point, I was just making sure I got everything I paid for
and I trust people like you and the others who were kind enough to read
and reply versus the people who sell the product and have a biased opinion.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the information and the input.
Dave H.


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[Doug Sims]

Dave,
I made a response about the manual in another post, if you haven't read
that one yet I say a few things about my displeasure of Carlson's
approach to a manual. The second post didn't thread the same as this one
though.

I still didn't say all I meant to say, about the manual, but I think I
got the main points expressed. Personally, I am the kind of person who
reads the entire instruction manual for something before I even charge
the batteries for it. My dad on other hand would rather force tab 'B'
into slot 'A' all day before picking up the manual or instructions.
However, the one thing we do agree on is that a manual for a CAD
program (especially a new one) is mandatory.

The current digital one (at least for CS2004) does not qualify as a
digital manual. It is simply a paper manual that has not been printed.

John,
If you or anyone else has any luck printing out the manual (from a
retailer/service shop) please let me know. Maybe other areas aren't as
uptight about copyright stuff, but around here they won't print anything
that looks like a book in any way.

--Doug


John Macolini wrote:

As, I said before, I'm very happy with the Carlson product and customer
support. But I will agree that it would've been nice to get a real manual.
While I have been able to learn and get comfortable with the software by
using it, looking at the CD manual, calling for support, and this discussion
group, it would be worth paying a little extra to get the manual.

I had intended to bring it to somewhere to be printed, but never got around
to it - and now hear that maybe copyright issues may prevent it anyway.


"Dave H." <dhettrick@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e918m6$da3$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
Good afternoon Doug,

The lack of any documentation, even a brief "quick-start" booklet is
definitely just being cheap in my opinion. Years ago I purchased a C&G
license on sale for $500 back in 1994 and received two very large and
informative manuals with the software and that's how I began my CAD
career. I was still working in the field back then with absolutely no CAD
experience and very minimal computer experience, just some drafting on the
board, but within two months I was producing finished drawings which
impressed the people above and the rest is history. All from manuals that
I was able to bookmark, highlight and place beside me and read while I
worked through a problem on screen. Like I mentioned before, if a $10
Mario game can come with instructions then I personally feel that so
should one that considers itself a professional product. Maybe the game
makers have more pride in their software?
$1500 may not be a lot of money to some folks but to me it's still a
substantial sum and I truly feel that a little booklet wouldn't break the
bank. If their profit margin is so small that they cannot afford something
so menial then I wonder why they would rather run up phone bills and labor
costs to provide tech support? It's probably more than they normally would
have to if there were better documentation. Seems like they're spending
dollars to save dimes to me. And most importantly and I think others have
missed my main point, I was just making sure I got everything I paid for
and I trust people like you and the others who were kind enough to read
and reply versus the people who sell the product and have a biased
opinion.
Thanks to you and everyone else for the information and the input.
Dave H.


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[John Macolini]

As, I said before, I'm very happy with the Carlson product and customer
support. But I will agree that it would've been nice to get a real manual.
While I have been able to learn and get comfortable with the software by
using it, looking at the CD manual, calling for support, and this discussion
group, it would be worth paying a little extra to get the manual.

I had intended to bring it to somewhere to be printed, but never got around
to it - and now hear that maybe copyright issues may prevent it anyway.


"Dave H." <dhettrick@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e918m6$da3$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Good afternoon Doug,

The lack of any documentation, even a brief "quick-start" booklet is
definitely just being cheap in my opinion. Years ago I purchased a C&G
license on sale for $500 back in 1994 and received two very large and
informative manuals with the software and that's how I began my CAD
career. I was still working in the field back then with absolutely no CAD
experience and very minimal computer experience, just some drafting on the
board, but within two months I was producing finished drawings which
impressed the people above and the rest is history. All from manuals that
I was able to bookmark, highlight and place beside me and read while I
worked through a problem on screen. Like I mentioned before, if a $10
Mario game can come with instructions then I personally feel that so
should one that considers itself a professional product. Maybe the game
makers have more pride in their software?
$1500 may not be a lot of money to some folks but to me it's still a
substantial sum and I truly feel that a little booklet wouldn't break the
bank. If their profit margin is so small that they cannot afford something
so menial then I wonder why they would rather run up phone bills and labor
costs to provide tech support? It's probably more than they normally would
have to if there were better documentation. Seems like they're spending
dollars to save dimes to me. And most importantly and I think others have
missed my main point, I was just making sure I got everything I paid for
and I trust people like you and the others who were kind enough to read
and reply versus the people who sell the product and have a biased
opinion.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the information and the input.
Dave H.


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[GibEngSurv]

Same deal for me Dave.
It is somewhat OEM packaging standards. I thought the Autocad was the
only thing that was OEM, not the CS2004. Doesn't seemmvery professional
from a marketing perspective. I believe the accounting dept. came up with
the packaging suggestion on this one.

PS. Marketing dept., get off the golf course.

Andy



Dave H. wrote:

So far I'm very disappointed with my whole Carlson Survey 2006 purchase
experience. To begin with, most of the re-sellers in the Jacksonville,
FL
area work harder trying not to sell you the software than they do
trying
to help you get it. It took almost two months of lies, unanswered and
unreturned phone calls before I was able to make a purchase. One lie
was
from a merchant that told me it was on order and on it's way. Two weeks
later I found out it was never ordered period. Scott Griffis, the local
Carlson representative was eventually able to sell me a copy of the
software but what he did sell me was the equivalent of what you'd
expect
to buy at a flea market or yard sale. No box, no book, or even a quick
start guide. Just a CD in a plastic case with a homemade looking
sticker
on it. He told me that's the way they "ALL" ship but on the
website it
shows a nice box and advertises the shipping weight as being 1.1
pounds.
One CD in a plastic case is a fraction of that weight so I personally
feel
that I was not sold what I paid for.

Was your purchase a better experience? Most importantly, did you receive
a
better packaged product? If so I'll really feel like I was screwed.

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##-----------------------------------------------##

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[Duckman]

So far we have had no problems with anything. We received a copy
of Survey & Civil 2007 and 2 CE 600+ within the "4-6 week" time
period. The software came in a rectangular black plastic CD
cases with a professional looking blue cover. The Data
Collectors came in a nice box with a manual, but did not have
field cases with them. The 1.1 pound is a shipping wt. and
includes the standardized brown shipping box and the packing
material to keep the software from bouncing around inside it.
They do pack multiple seats into one box however. My biggest
thing is the manual once printed does not cover all the little
details of the program. For example in a Cogo traverse what the
0-3 in a vertical angle is for, it does tell you on the screen
if you keep your command line set to show 6 lines, which I
didn't use to do. I would suggest finding another sales rep even
if you have to go out of state.

Duckman