Coordinates/contouring Am I retarded?

[imdaman]

I will start with our first issue: just getting a good coord file. Our
typical process is to collect data, d/l it daily, process and draw
linework. After say, 7 days on the project we have 7 drawing files, 7
coord files and we combine these all together for the final product. Note
that each day has distict Ptno. and file names. So now I have this nice
large file with all the linework connected and all 2000+ points and I want
to run contours. I decide to make a new coord file (ie compile01) to make
sure it is all clean. Or I may open an old file and want to update the
coords. I chose the 'simple' command "Update Coord file from Drawing",
and hit go. Then I list all my points. Hmm, the drawing shows all the
points listed at elevations 200 or so but the listed coords are all at
-53... What the!?! Where does this program get this stuff? So after
about 2 more days of going back through and getting the coord file ready,
doing all the 3d line work (and 2d-this is another issue) I run contours.
WOW! Where did that fissure come from? I dont recall locating a 70'
dropoff in the middle of the apartment complex! In fact I did not. The
program has (from my perspective) randomly created some anomoly to which
it has decided contours should be drawn. I will also note various and
seemingly random hills and valleys. A good example of this is that
between the 190 and 192 contour, I have several spot elevations of
appropriate value but around one of them is a series of contours creating
a hole down to elevation 180. How does this happen? I dont have any
linework in this area that could be incorrect and this 188 - 180 contour
set mind you is between the 190 and 192 contour. All I have around are
spot elevations with variances of no more than 4 feet (189-193 or so). So
now I get to spend another 2 days erasing out all the bogus linework.
Also, why is it that I can have one elevation on the screen, another
elevation for the coord file, and point property geometry at yet a third?
And why does a 2d get an elevation of -63.15? Is not the defintion of 2d
only X and Y? The help files even state that a 2d polyline is drawn at
levation '0'. I have had this program for a year, have had several large
and small projects with various amounts of linework and each time I run
into this same problem. Are all the rest of you so familiar with these
issues that you have learned to live with them or work your way through
them? I cam from a DCA prduct created back in 1996 that was absolutely
problem free in contours and point management. one click to update coords
from drawing, a few clicks to draw a poly perimeter, a few clicks to run
the tin, one click to run the contours and BAM! it was done. I am at a
wits end and though I have read every help file on contours and coord
files I guess it is time to travel to Carlson for some extensive training.
Oh, and this is on top of the massive crashes that are the cause of half
day incriments of lost data and time.



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[Ken DeCamp]

I just noticed in the last day a glitch in a topo. I just did. I did a 12
acre, 1' contour topo. There were 4 days of raw data that I downloaded every
day into the same drawing and the same coordinate file. I used field to
finish type surveying on all of it, and when it got down to contouring it,
it created a 6' mound in the middle of a road I topo'd!!! I ran the routine
about 5 times and it did the same thing. I run it, the contours would look
out of sync, and I'd even view it with the 3d viewer. Every time it still
looked wrong. Keep in mind that I used field to finish, and my barrier lines
were correct for my tops and toes of the road. On my 6th try, it worked
out!! What the!?? I noticed one thing when it was doing the contours wrong;
the program would just erase my barrier line on my top line for the edge of
gravel road.



Ken DeCamp

[Rob Cross]

It sounds like you are blocking in topo files into one master file and
placing them on top of each other. Think of each file as a box. The top of
the box represents the ground. Now you bring that box in and set it on top
of the original box. The bottom of the topo box is sitting on top of the
top of the original box. That is not a bug. You are setting a 3D object on
top of another 3D object and expecting them to blend.

Try starting with just your initial traverse in one file and import your raw
topo file into that same drawing and coordinate file. If you make sure to
erase all coordinates from your raw file, you don't need the correct
coordinates for your traverse in your raw files except to check BS
distances. Use field to finish to draw just the points from your topo file.
Works like a champ.

"imdaman" <dave@csisurveying.com> wrote in message
news:du4qpt$4co$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

I will start with our first issue: just getting a good coord file. Our
typical process is to collect data, d/l it daily, process and draw
linework. After say, 7 days on the project we have 7 drawing files, 7
coord files and we combine these all together for the final product. Note
that each day has distict Ptno. and file names. So now I have this nice
large file with all the linework connected and all 2000+ points and I want
to run contours. I decide to make a new coord file (ie compile01) to make
sure it is all clean. Or I may open an old file and want to update the
coords. I chose the 'simple' command "Update Coord file from Drawing",
and hit go. Then I list all my points. Hmm, the drawing shows all the
points listed at elevations 200 or so but the listed coords are all at
-53... What the!?! Where does this program get this stuff? So after
about 2 more days of going back through and getting the coord file ready,
doing all the 3d line work (and 2d-this is another issue) I run contours.
WOW! Where did that fissure come from? I dont recall locating a 70'
dropoff in the middle of the apartment complex! In fact I did not. The
program has (from my perspective) randomly created some anomoly to which
it has decided contours should be drawn. I will also note various and
seemingly random hills and valleys. A good example of this is that
between the 190 and 192 contour, I have several spot elevations of
appropriate value but around one of them is a series of contours creating
a hole down to elevation 180. How does this happen? I dont have any
linework in this area that could be incorrect and this 188 - 180 contour
set mind you is between the 190 and 192 contour. All I have around are
spot elevations with variances of no more than 4 feet (189-193 or so). So
now I get to spend another 2 days erasing out all the bogus linework.
Also, why is it that I can have one elevation on the screen, another
elevation for the coord file, and point property geometry at yet a third?
And why does a 2d get an elevation of -63.15? Is not the defintion of 2d
only X and Y? The help files even state that a 2d polyline is drawn at
levation '0'. I have had this program for a year, have had several large
and small projects with various amounts of linework and each time I run
into this same problem. Are all the rest of you so familiar with these
issues that you have learned to live with them or work your way through
them? I cam from a DCA prduct created back in 1996 that was absolutely
problem free in contours and point management. one click to update coords
from drawing, a few clicks to draw a poly perimeter, a few clicks to run
the tin, one click to run the contours and BAM! it was done. I am at a
wits end and though I have read every help file on contours and coord
files I guess it is time to travel to Carlson for some extensive training.
Oh, and this is on top of the massive crashes that are the cause of half
day incriments of lost data and time.



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[imdaman]

Thanks, Rob. A few projects back we figured this seemed to be one of our
issues. We had a file working and when we brought another in, we noticed
that all the common control elevations were 2x. Because it has been so
long since I have upgraded my software it appears that I have a large
learning curve dealing with all the new ACAD fuctionality.
Lets say then, that I have several days worth of data but that I want to
start working on this stuff sooner, rather than waiting for all the field
to be completed. What should be my course of action?
1: Should I just wait until it is all done? if so, then what about
incorporating more data or pick-up work that may be required?
2: do my linework but just erase out all the point data, insert new days
work each instance and when it is all done, redo an entire point file,
process etc? I have a feeling this will have my points ok, but the 3d
lines will be stacked.
3: bring each day into the same drawing as it is completed and just do the
linework as it is needed? The problem with this is all the crossover
problems that are possible. We used to do it this way years ago but
changed to doing each day as a block for ease of drafting. Something
about doing linework with 2000 points... Even with good layering it is
still possible to have hairy situations that will result in innacurate
linework.
I have reviewed all of carlson training videos and read their help files
and what not. No where do I see any instructions on how things 'NEED' to
be performed. Like most programs, there are multiple ways to get from A
to Z but I think that in topo generation the user really needs to perform
it one way and one way only. I just cannot tell what that one way is. If
anyone in pac NW is looking at some training, contact me and I will see
about arranging a class at cost for us.


Rob Cross wrote:

It sounds like you are blocking in topo files into one master file and
placing them on top of each other. Think of each file as a box. The
top of
the box represents the ground. Now you bring that box in and set it on
top
of the original box. The bottom of the topo box is sitting on top of
the
top of the original box. That is not a bug. You are setting a 3D
object on
top of another 3D object and expecting them to blend.

Try starting with just your initial traverse in one file and import your
raw
topo file into that same drawing and coordinate file. If you make sure
to
erase all coordinates from your raw file, you don't need the correct
coordinates for your traverse in your raw files except to check BS
distances. Use field to finish to draw just the points from your topo
file.
Works like a champ.

"imdaman" <dave@csisurveying.com> wrote in message
news:du4qpt$4co$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
I will start with our first issue: just getting a good coord file.
Our
typical process is to collect data, d/l it daily, process and draw
linework. After say, 7 days on the project we have 7 drawing
files, 7
coord files and we combine these all together for the final
product. Note
that each day has distict Ptno. and file names. So now I have this
nice
large file with all the linework connected and all 2000+ points and
I want
to run contours. I decide to make a new coord file (ie compile01)
to make
sure it is all clean. Or I may open an old file and want to update
the
coords. I chose the 'simple' command "Update Coord file from
Drawing",
and hit go. Then I list all my points. Hmm, the drawing shows all
the
points listed at elevations 200 or so but the listed coords are all
at
-53... What the!?! Where does this program get this stuff? So
after
about 2 more days of going back through and getting the coord file
ready,
doing all the 3d line work (and 2d-this is another issue) I run
contours.
WOW! Where did that fissure come from? I dont recall locating a
70'
dropoff in the middle of the apartment complex! In fact I did not.
The
program has (from my perspective) randomly created some anomoly to
which
it has decided contours should be drawn. I will also note various
and
seemingly random hills and valleys. A good example of this is
that
between the 190 and 192 contour, I have several spot elevations of
appropriate value but around one of them is a series of contours
creating
a hole down to elevation 180. How does this happen? I dont have
any
linework in this area that could be incorrect and this 188 - 180
contour
set mind you is between the 190 and 192 contour. All I have around
are
spot elevations with variances of no more than 4 feet (189-193 or
so). So
now I get to spend another 2 days erasing out all the bogus
linework.
Also, why is it that I can have one elevation on the screen,
another
elevation for the coord file, and point property geometry at yet a
third?
And why does a 2d get an elevation of -63.15? Is not the defintion
of 2d
only X and Y? The help files even state that a 2d polyline is
drawn at
levation '0'. I have had this program for a year, have had several
large
and small projects with various amounts of linework and each time I
run
into this same problem. Are all the rest of you so familiar with
these
issues that you have learned to live with them or work your way
through
them? I cam from a DCA prduct created back in 1996 that was
absolutely
problem free in contours and point management. one click to update
coords
from drawing, a few clicks to draw a poly perimeter, a few clicks
to run
the tin, one click to run the contours and BAM! it was done. I am
at a
wits end and though I have read every help file on contours and
coord
files I guess it is time to travel to Carlson for some extensive
training.
Oh, and this is on top of the massive crashes that are the cause of
half
day incriments of lost data and time.



##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with MyNewsGroups
http://mynewsgroups.sourceforge.net
Share your knowledge in... carlson.carlson-survey
##-----------------------------------------------##

##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with MyNewsGroups
http://mynewsgroups.sourceforge.net
Share your knowledge in... carlson.carlson-survey
##-----------------------------------------------##

[Rob Cross]

1. What we normally do is run our traverse with the boundary locations.
Then we create a drawing with a coordinate file of the same name such as
5000TP_0.dwg and .crd. Adjust the traverse and sideshows and complete the
boundary survey. The traverse points would be numbered between 1 and 100.
The boundary sideshows would be numbered between 100 and 500.

2. We then upload the adjusted traverse coordinates and use them as a
control file and start the topo. The raw file would start with the job
number and a letter such as 5000A.rw5. The next day would be 5000B.rw5.
We track the point numbers used each day in the field book along with
corrections that need to be made to the raw file.

3. Each days topo is brought in to the original drawing. The coordinates
are removed from the raw file and corrections are made such as rod heights
or descriptions. The file is then reduced. If you perform any resections,
you have to decide if you want to use the DC generated coordinates or create
your own in CS2006. I generally re-do the resection in CS2006. I get
slightly different answers in that versus in the DC. I don't know if it is
the number of decimal places used or what.

4. We then open field to finish and process only those points reduced from
the current days topo file. So if you located points 501-750 in 5000A.rw5
you would process only 501-750. Then the next day, you located 751-1000 in
5000B.rw5 you would process only 751-1000. Make sure you uncheck the "Erase
Existing Field to Finish Entities". If you don't, it will erase the
previous days work. That is really frustrating.

I have found that it is easier and takes less time for me to combine the
files as I go. We work in one area and complete it prior to moving to
another area. If we are locating an improvement such as curb, we will take
it as far as we can from one traverse point and mark that ending location.
When we set up on the next traverse point to continue the curb, we start 25
or 50 feet from the previous location. In the office, we just connect the
two polylines (3D) with a line or 3D polyline and use the join nearest
command to make the three entities into one.


"imdaman" <dave@csisurveying.com> wrote in message
news:du9q3v$q14$1@update.carlsonsw.com...

Thanks, Rob. A few projects back we figured this seemed to be one of our
issues. We had a file working and when we brought another in, we noticed
that all the common control elevations were 2x. Because it has been so
long since I have upgraded my software it appears that I have a large
learning curve dealing with all the new ACAD fuctionality.
Lets say then, that I have several days worth of data but that I want to
start working on this stuff sooner, rather than waiting for all the field
to be completed. What should be my course of action?
1: Should I just wait until it is all done? if so, then what about
incorporating more data or pick-up work that may be required?
2: do my linework but just erase out all the point data, insert new days
work each instance and when it is all done, redo an entire point file,
process etc? I have a feeling this will have my points ok, but the 3d
lines will be stacked.
3: bring each day into the same drawing as it is completed and just do the
linework as it is needed? The problem with this is all the crossover
problems that are possible. We used to do it this way years ago but
changed to doing each day as a block for ease of drafting. Something
about doing linework with 2000 points... Even with good layering it is
still possible to have hairy situations that will result in innacurate
linework.
I have reviewed all of carlson training videos and read their help files
and what not. No where do I see any instructions on how things 'NEED' to
be performed. Like most programs, there are multiple ways to get from A
to Z but I think that in topo generation the user really needs to perform
it one way and one way only. I just cannot tell what that one way is. If
anyone in pac NW is looking at some training, contact me and I will see
about arranging a class at cost for us.


Rob Cross wrote:

It sounds like you are blocking in topo files into one master file and
placing them on top of each other. Think of each file as a box. The
top of
the box represents the ground. Now you bring that box in and set it on
top
of the original box. The bottom of the topo box is sitting on top of
the
top of the original box. That is not a bug. You are setting a 3D
object on
top of another 3D object and expecting them to blend.

Try starting with just your initial traverse in one file and import your
raw
topo file into that same drawing and coordinate file. If you make sure
to
erase all coordinates from your raw file, you don't need the correct
coordinates for your traverse in your raw files except to check BS
distances. Use field to finish to draw just the points from your topo
file.
Works like a champ.

"imdaman" <dave@csisurveying.com> wrote in message
news:du4qpt$4co$1@update.carlsonsw.com...
I will start with our first issue: just getting a good coord file.
Our
typical process is to collect data, d/l it daily, process and draw
linework. After say, 7 days on the project we have 7 drawing
files, 7
coord files and we combine these all together for the final
product. Note
that each day has distict Ptno. and file names. So now I have this
nice
large file with all the linework connected and all 2000+ points and
I want
to run contours. I decide to make a new coord file (ie compile01)
to make
sure it is all clean. Or I may open an old file and want to update
the
coords. I chose the 'simple' command "Update Coord file from
Drawing",
and hit go. Then I list all my points. Hmm, the drawing shows all
the
points listed at elevations 200 or so but the listed coords are all
at
-53... What the!?! Where does this program get this stuff? So
after
about 2 more days of going back through and getting the coord file
ready,
doing all the 3d line work (and 2d-this is another issue) I run
contours.
WOW! Where did that fissure come from? I dont recall locating a
70'
dropoff in the middle of the apartment complex! In fact I did not.
The
program has (from my perspective) randomly created some anomoly to
which
it has decided contours should be drawn. I will also note various
and
seemingly random hills and valleys. A good example of this is
that
between the 190 and 192 contour, I have several spot elevations of
appropriate value but around one of them is a series of contours
creating
a hole down to elevation 180. How does this happen? I dont have
any
linework in this area that could be incorrect and this 188 - 180
contour
set mind you is between the 190 and 192 contour. All I have around
are
spot elevations with variances of no more than 4 feet (189-193 or
so). So
now I get to spend another 2 days erasing out all the bogus
linework.
Also, why is it that I can have one elevation on the screen,
another
elevation for the coord file, and point property geometry at yet a
third?
And why does a 2d get an elevation of -63.15? Is not the defintion
of 2d
only X and Y? The help files even state that a 2d polyline is
drawn at
levation '0'. I have had this program for a year, have had several
large
and small projects with various amounts of linework and each time I
run
into this same problem. Are all the rest of you so familiar with
these
issues that you have learned to live with them or work your way
through
them? I cam from a DCA prduct created back in 1996 that was
absolutely
problem free in contours and point management. one click to update
coords
from drawing, a few clicks to draw a poly perimeter, a few clicks
to run
the tin, one click to run the contours and BAM! it was done. I am
at a
wits end and though I have read every help file on contours and
coord
files I guess it is time to travel to Carlson for some extensive
training.
Oh, and this is on top of the massive crashes that are the cause of
half
day incriments of lost data and time.



##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with MyNewsGroups
http://mynewsgroups.sourceforge.net
Share your knowledge in... carlson.carlson-survey
##-----------------------------------------------##








##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with MyNewsGroups
http://mynewsgroups.sourceforge.net
Share your knowledge in... carlson.carlson-survey
##-----------------------------------------------##